Dealer markups .

snoranger

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I figured leases were harder to get with bad or not good credit than a loan would be? Wonder why that's the case....oh well not really interested at this time, with today's market prices LOL.

I guess the huge plus with a lease is in fact you are under warranty all the time, but I don't think you can really modify the vehicle it has to stay stock, can't mount stuff on them, etc. from my understanding?
I’ve got tons of toys, I really don’t need or care to modify my daily driver. I need something to get me to work without any issues. I get called in at strange times for snow storms, sheriff’s tow’s, prosecutor’s impounds, etc.

Life has change a little now that I have a county truck I drive to work. I may need to reassess the situation.
 

Chapap

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I figured leases were harder to get with bad or not good credit than a loan would be? Wonder why that's the case....oh well not really interested at this time, with today's market prices LOL.

I guess the huge plus with a lease is in fact you are under warranty all the time, but I don't think you can really modify the vehicle it has to stay stock, can't mount stuff on them, etc. from my understanding?
A lease is effectively the same thing as buying a car the way I see it. The only difference is that there is a purchase date and price pre-negotiated at purchase. There's always a down payment, monthly payments are lower, and the term is only 3 years. I guess this is the reasoning behind it being easier to get with poor credit.

The problem with leases is the interest rate (called "money factor" with a lease) is pretty high and the buyback is low.

Turning it in seems a bit scary. Dealerships have a reputation, and the lessee is relying on them to give an honest valuation of the vehicle at turn in. If you put on mods that make the vehicle harder for them to sell, they'll probably give you grief. Aftermarket electricals (audio, lighting) that bungle up the wiring, decals, anything that pops up on an OBDII reader, aftermarket wheels/suspension/intake.
 
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wildbill23c

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A lease is effectively the same thing as buying a car the way I see it. The only difference is that there is a purchase date and price pre-negotiated at purchase. There's always a down payment, monthly payments are lower, and the term is only 3 years. I guess this is the reasoning behind it being easier to get with poor credit.

The problem with leases is the interest rate (called "money factor" with a lease) is pretty high and the buyback is low.

Turning it in seems a bit scary. Dealerships have a reputation, and the lessee is relying on them to give an honest valuation of the vehicle at turn in. If you put on mods that make the vehicle harder for them to sell, they'll probably give you grief. Aftermarket electricals (audio, lighting) that bungle up the wiring, decals, anything that pops up on an OBDII reader, aftermarket wheels/suspension/intake.
Thanks. After the past few replies about leasing, I might just try that next time I am in the market for a vehicle...which won't be for a while, but it sounds like a lease overall might make more sense at least from the security standpoint of less out of pocket expenses for unscheduled repairs LOL. I've just never really liked the idea of paying a payment every month for something I'll never own....but I guess the trade off with that would be I'd have a vehicle that's always under warranty....and it seems like once you get into leasing its kind of an easy thing to just keep swapping out vehicles every few years for a nice new one.

I'm not into modifying vehicles, I was just curious what they'd do or say if someone did modify a leased vehicle. The only thing I'd even consider would possibly be different tires depending on what it came with at the time.
 

wildbill23c

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I’ve got tons of toys, I really don’t need or care to modify my daily driver. I need something to get me to work without any issues. I get called in at strange times for snow storms, sheriff’s tow’s, prosecutor’s impounds, etc.

Life has change a little now that I have a county truck I drive to work. I may need to reassess the situation.
I really don't care to modify my vehicles either, and if I did I'd want something older anyways LOL. The only thing I'd really consider changing on a leased vehicle would be the tires if needed for better traction in winter, which I don't think would really be an issue with a lease, especially if you kept the OEM tires to put back on when you turn it in.
 

rubydist

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In the current environment where vehicles are being sold at or above msrp and being sold faster than the manufacturers can make them, leasing is not necessarily lower payment than financing, especially if the cost of money is high. But in more "normal" times, leasing will typically result in a significantly lower payment.

If you can accurately predict the number of miles you drive, and if you like a new vehicle regularly, leasing is usually the least expensive way to go.
 

Chapap

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So here's what my excel sheet says. I'm assuming my calculations are correct... or correct enough.

Used, 10k, replace every 10 yrs, avg 100/mo maintenance
16 yrs: 39k
30 yrs: 71k

New, 35k, replace every 8 yrs, 3k for tire and misc maint, sell for 10k,
10k down, 72 mo, 5% int, $442 payment
16 yrs: 70k
30 yrs: 148k

Lease: 35k, replace every 3 yrs, no maint
7k down, 0.002 $factor, 50% residual, $377 payment
16 yrs: $163k
30 yrs: $270k

New to compare lease: 35k, replace every 3 yrs, sell for 22k,
10k down, 36 mo, 4% int, $810 payment
16 yrs: $125k
30 yrs: 209k
 

wildbill23c

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So here's what my excel sheet says. I'm assuming my calculations are correct... or correct enough.

Used, 10k, replace every 10 yrs, avg 100/mo maintenance
16 yrs: 39k
30 yrs: 71k

New, 35k, replace every 8 yrs, 3k for tire and misc maint, sell for 10k,
10k down, 72 mo, 5% int, $442 payment
16 yrs: 70k
30 yrs: 148k

Lease: 35k, replace every 3 yrs, no maint
7k down, 0.002 $factor, 50% residual, $377 payment
16 yrs: $163k
30 yrs: $270k

New to compare lease: 35k, replace every 3 yrs, sell for 22k,
10k down, 36 mo, 4% int, $810 payment
16 yrs: $125k
30 yrs: 209k

By those number why would anyone lease anything, costs more than a regular loan LOL. But I'm thinking those prices are a bit bloated due to current market conditions...even still those prices reflect a very high payment for a lease VS a loan payment.
 

snoranger

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Lease: 35k, replace every 3 yrs, no maint
7k down, 0.002 $factor, 50% residual, $377 payment
16 yrs: $163k
30 yrs: $270k
$377 x 12 months x 16 years = $72,384
$7k x 6 down payments = $42,000
Total $114,384

That’s not even an apples to apples comparison. The only way to see the real numbers is to break the down payment up into month payments.

$7000 / 36 months = $194.45 per month
$377 + $194.45 = $571.45 actual monthly payment.
$571.45 x 12 months x 16 years = $109,717.33



Those numbers sound high to me. My 20 F150 stickered for $55k, I got it for just under $50k. I put $3600 down and my lease payment is $402 a month. That equals an average payment of $502 a month.
That’s $18,072 for the 3 year lease or $96,384 over 16 years… WAY different from that $163k number you came up with on a $35k vehicle.
 
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wildbill23c

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$377 x 12 months x 16 years = $72,384
$7k x 6 down payments = $42,000
Total $114,384

That’s not even an apples to apples comparison. The only way to see the real numbers is to break the down payment up into month payments.

$7000 / 36 months = $194.45 per month
$377 + $194.45 = $571.45 actual monthly payment.
$571.45 x 12 months x 16 years = $109,717.33



Those numbers sound high to me. My 20 F150 stickered for $55k, I got it for just under $50k. I put $3600 down and my lease payment is $402 a month. That equals an average payment of $502 a month.
That’s $18,072 for the 3 year lease or $96,384 over 16 years… WAY different from that $163k number you came up with on a $35k vehicle.
What are you guys coming up with 16 year for? A lease is only a couple years to I think 4 years from what I've seen, what is the 16 year thing coming from?
 

snoranger

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What are you guys coming up with 16 year for? A lease is only a couple years to I think 4 years from what I've seen, what is the 16 year thing coming from?
I just went with his numbers for sake of comparison. I would never lease something more than 3 year/36k miles. After that you run the risk of having to do tires, brakes, or other maintenance… that would defeat the purpose of a lease.
 

wildbill23c

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I just went with his numbers for sake of comparison. I would never lease something more than 3 year/36k miles. After that you run the risk of having to do tires, brakes, or other maintenance… that would defeat the purpose of a lease.
Oh, so the 16 years would be leasing for that length of time then? If that's the case I don't think they would allow a lease that long, or would they? I mean if the vehicle lasts that long LOL. I'd keep the lease time to the length of the factory warranty which I believe for many is 3 years....I think I see where many lease for like 2 years then return and get another for 2 more years. 3 years I think would be as far as I'd go too.
 

snoranger

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Oh, so the 16 years would be leasing for that length of time then? If that's the case I don't think they would allow a lease that long, or would they? I mean if the vehicle lasts that long LOL. I'd keep the lease time to the length of the factory warranty which I believe for many is 3 years....I think I see where many lease for like 2 years then return and get another for 2 more years. 3 years I think would be as far as I'd go too.
I did the math as if I leased a new vehicle every 3 years. Based off the down payment and monthly payment. If I put $3600 down on a 36 month lease, that equates to the same as another $100 a month on a lease payment.
So my $3600 down / $402 a month would be equal to $502 a month. Obviously the cost of each vehicle would go up with each new vehicle if you got the same exact thing each time, but I can’t predict that amount.
 

Chapap

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The 16 and 30 years is just adding up all the 3yr leases to see lifetime costa of ownership. I’ll have to go back and see how what I did with the lease numbers.
 

wildbill23c

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I did the math as if I leased a new vehicle every 3 years. Based off the down payment and monthly payment. If I put $3600 down on a 36 month lease, that equates to the same as another $100 a month on a lease payment.
So my $3600 down / $402 a month would be equal to $502 a month. Obviously the cost of each vehicle would go up with each new vehicle if you got the same exact thing each time, but I can’t predict that amount.
Got it, thanks. I guess if you figure out the cost of a regular 5 year car loan, and figure the cost of repairs/maintenance items over say 15-20 years as in you bought the vehicle for the long term, probably would still cost you more than leasing over a lifetime. Tires, brakes, etc. aren't cheap.
 

wildbill23c

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The 16 and 30 years is just adding up all the 3yr leases to see lifetime costa of ownership. I’ll have to go back and see how what I did with the lease numbers.
Makes more sense now, thanks.

Kind of hard to really figure out but given you buy a new car rather than lease, then you have to figure in repairs/maintenance over that same 16-20 or 30 years for example, probably would be as expensive if not more expensive than a lifetime of lease agreements. Course that would depend on the vehicle you buy, and the number of breakdowns it has after its warranty expires.
 

snoranger

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The average 16 year old vehicle costs over $300/mo in repairs based on the information I get from people trading out of them.
Seeing as how most independent shops are in the $130-140 an hour range, that’s not hard to believe.
 

wildbill23c

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The average 16 year old vehicle costs over $300/mo in repairs based on the information I get from people trading out of them.
I think that number is about triple. My 05 Ford Taurus is at the shop for a coolant leak, its leaking out of the timing cover, so they're doing timing chain kit, water pump, etc. while they have it torn apart....cost $2500. I'd rather have a $300 repair though LOL. If it weren't for it being winter and not having a garage to work in I would have done the work myself, but the car would have been down for months due to being at work way too much.
 

Chapap

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Any idea what it would cost to build a car using replacement part prices? At some point in a cars lifetime your basically building a new car by replacing parts. I’m sure car makers get a good deal on parts
 

wildbill23c

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Any idea what it would cost to build a car using replacement part prices? At some point in a cars lifetime your basically building a new car by replacing parts. I’m sure car makers get a good deal on parts
Considering the parts markups at all the part stores, add on the additional markups that repair shops charge, and you've got quite the money roll coming in if you are in the parts business. Worse part is those parts you pay a premium for are oftentimes cheap rebuilt junk that don't work right out of the box. Batteries are the same way, just played the monthly battery swap game over this past spring and summer with my Bronco 2 before I sold it. Interstate Batteries = garbage, expensive garbage.
 
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